Samir Jain: 0:06

the most dangerous guy in the room that I've ever met is the guy That's super technical, but can sell. like, figure out how to sell, And that made it click for me. this is a skillset that needs to be formalized. and That's something I head into at, at medidata here. My position here as as much as it's, the product, it's able to work with customers to help them understand the value and to align it to what the problems that they're building. and I've had the opportunity to really work very closely with our customers and with our sales team and, really build out that part of my brain really in a way.

Varun Rajan: 0:41

yeah.

Samir Jain: 0:42

that's been awesome. It's been so much fun to do that.

Varun Rajan: 0:44

That's really great. you were talking about how when you had this conversation and it really clicked for you about sales you start looking back and like applying that filter to all of the times that you were kind of successful in different parts of your career. Like you were talking about the time. At Ready Consulting that you realized like you were actually being really effective at selling, either internally to your team or externally to your clients, and maintaining that relationship Which I think is so incredibly cool that you were able to actually lean into a skillset that you didn't quite know how to articulate at the time. but now you have a framework for that. is that fair to say, like how would you kind of define that or how would you suggest someone think about sales as someone who's not in sales.

Samir Jain: 1:29

So great questions. Number one. Yeah, that's accurate, right? And then number two, sales. isn't necessarily. Just selling a product to a buyer. I think that's a mentality shift. it's the power of influence at the end of the day, And persuasion when you realize that is a part of your success in a role is the ability to cultivate that skillset, then you can start learning, to do that. So that doesn't mean that you have to go as an engineer and try to get customer face time, But it is understanding, as an engineer for example, to understand the folks around you like, what are they thinking? What are their problems that they're owning? what does their world look like? And then start to align your own thoughts into that, And that starts to become. how you persuade and, I think about, seniority in engineering, it's it's not just technical, right? Like it's it's the ability to explain some deeply technical topic, some stakeholder that's not quite as technical a way that they grok it and can understand what you're trying to say. That, to me is, in engineering. and in order to do that, you need to understand like, what is the information. looking for, it's understanding statement. what is this person and and can I can I deliver? what they need, right? In a way that's gonna be, that they'll trust me and, you know, is gonna add value to them. that's the skillset that people need to cultivate, I think. And that's universal. If you can do that, you will level up in your career,

Theresa Freet: 2:58

So I moved to New York and then worked for about six months at b and qui mixing and shaping bread dough. So spent a lot of time with bread and I think the biggest thing I learned there is. One, like I, my body was just not made for that type of work. I was developing carpal tunnel in my right wrist. But also it just completely diminished like my joy for bread because having to do it like on that type of cadence, like every day, that number of days a week, just really shifted my relationship to it. It became less something that like, there was like joy and novelty to, and more of something that became like a must do. And that, that I think is actually probably the bigger lesson for me around like trying to right size what like am passionate about and what's a hobby versus what's a career like the number of times that people are like, oh, this thing that you love. Or if you're good at something, like you should do that for a living. And I'm always a little bit cautious around but actually sometimes things should just be stuff we do because we love it. Like

Varun Rajan: 4:06

Yeah, that makes sense, right? Because it's not. It, and it doesn't necessarily mean you can't be successful or have a successful career with something that you're truly passionate about, but it's that when you make something that you're passionate about work, it becomes work and all of the things that we associate with the things that we don't like about work, that is the things that are the necessary friction of keeping jobs going and the paperwork and the bureau rocketry or whatever, right? Like you, you have certain mandatory inputs that you have to put into your work. When, like for bread, like you, you're not gonna give yourself like a early morning marathon where you're shaping bread all day every single day. That's not the thing that you would choose to do. But like, when it becomes work, then that's your job.

Theresa Freet: 4:53

Uh. to choose what you wanna do. You don't get to wake up and say I feel like making this today. It's you've got orders, you've got commitments, Tavern is waiting for this type of role. You have to do the same thing every day. And there are some people who really, you know, find joy in it. Like I ha I have some lifelong friends that I made at that period of time who truly love like the nuance of day-to-day, seeing what's different and getting to do that routine and that cycle on a day to day. And I just found that was not quite what lit me up. find that kind of like meditative joy of being like, today it's slightly different. I wonder why, let's think through this instead it became like more of a chore.

Varun Rajan: 5:31

this is really great and a really helpful lesson for a lot of people. I also feel like we were part of a generation that was like, do the thing you love. And there's always truth and value to that message, but there are always truth and value to like the flip side of but then it becomes work and you had a lot of other. Priorities, I think. And that's the other thing that's really amazing about all of your early twenties story is that you followed, not necessarily the work itself. it doesn't sound to me that you were purely strategic or even transactional about this is gonna be good for my career. You were kind of like, this is the life that I wanna live. And Whether it's traveling to different places or actually cooking and baking, right? You're like these are the things that I love and I'm going to find the opportunities that allow me to live that life.

Theresa Freet: 6:20

yeah. I think that's exactly right. A lot of focus on what I wanted what lit me up, and then I. To be fair, at a certain point I had to come to terms with, actually at some point in time, I guess I gotta figure out was like a quote unquote real career. Versus hopping around from thing to thing. But that exposure and I think what I learned from all of that was incredibly important. that lesson in getting the opportunity to do something that I thought I really love doing and make it into work, and then getting to see how that felt was really different. 'cause I think there are lots of people that still have this dream of oh, I don't really like my job, but I wish I could one day like run a, be like a bed and breakfast or do, an art studio. Like I started doing ceramics recently and people would be like, you should just sell your ceramics as a living. And I'm like no. Like I don't actually wanna have to make 300 of the same mug. What I wanna do is make one mug that I like and then. So it just was such a good formative lesson. And like sometimes hobbies and things you're good at, like you're allowed to just let them be expressions of joy and then you can do other things that you love doing or that light you up or that you know you care about, but that are actually more transactionally about funding the rest of the lifestyle that brings you joy.

Rajan Trivedi: 7:40

my decision point around this transition was, do I want to go work in a startup in the technology space or do I want to further my public service and political pointee world, and try to mobilize upward, in that sphere. was a gnarly, tough decision, and one that I spent hours and lots of counsel, and really thinking about. And in that phase, I was a sponge. I talked to as many people as I could. I knew no one in Kenya at that time. I knew that, if I were to go down, the startup and technology, lane, I had three criterion of what I wanted to work on. One is that I wanted it to be international. I wanted to get out of dc which is the largest employer, at least at that time in the world. And I really wanted to work at a smaller kind of company, and really build zero to one products. And then the last criterion is that, I really wanted to feel motivated and excited about the impact of the, of the product. And I did tons of networking. I looked at a number of opportunities. I took a gigantic pay cut, and I, picked up my life, put myself into a backpack, and lived in and moved to Nairobi, Kenya. I did a very calculated risk assessment as well. There were a couple of ways I did that. One is that I had applied for grad school and I'd received admission to, a master's of public Policy programs, up across, the East coast. and two, I had enough savings in the bank where I was able to do some gallivanting around the world. So in that timeframe as well, I was able to go to the World Cup in Brazil. I was

Varun Rajan: 9:17

Nice.

Rajan Trivedi: 9:17

to, spend time with my grandmother who was in the nursing home and see ultimately, unfortunately her passing and just be highly

Varun Rajan: 9:25

Sorry to hear that.

Rajan Trivedi: 9:26

I was able to do a lot of, with that time and that time is often limited and so valuable. I was able to nurture that in between these transitions and really go head in first into my startup in Kenya.

Varun Rajan: 9:38

You said you had a bunch of networking calls. Were there any insights, from those calls if you can remember that kind of maybe pulled you one way or another? if you were thinking about doing something outside of the opportunity that you had in Nairobi or even grad school at the time? what, were there any kind of like words of wisdom that you received at the time that made you think differently? or informed, ultimately what you ended up prioritizing?

Rajan Trivedi: 10:00

Yeah, I would say a few kind of words of wisdom, came with the 60 plus people I networked, connected with, chatted with evaluated counsel, and I got mentorship from. and it really comes down to risk, adventure and the fact that time is a gift. and indexing on all of those, in my mid twenties, not in a relationship, have a little bit of security and backup. all were elements of how I thought about, a career in a startup in East Africa. on the flip of that, there were some more, professionalisms that are important. International experience is always valuable. and working in different, environments is critical. Being able to deal with ambiguity is a skill that's. That is, highly sought after in all the different industries. But, all those were just isms that were not motivating. What was motivating was that I was looking for the most adventurous, highest risk and, time in order to, to enjoy those years that I spent, overseas.