Varun Rajan: 0:06

Hey folks, Varun Rajan here. Welcome to the Push Pull podcast where we interview professionals about their career transition, specifically the push and pull factors that inform those transitions. I am super excited to share today's episode with Dr. Jess Mendoza, a cognitive psychologist turned UX researcher whose journey will absolutely resonate with anyone who's ever taken the long winding road into tech or corporate work, or ever question whether their background really translates into the opportunities that they wanna pursue next, jess is the definition of persistence. She's a first gen college student, the first in her family to earn a doctorate, and someone who made brave sometimes lonely decisions to follow her curiosity and passion, even when it meant. Stepping far outside her comfort zone from community college conducting social experiments with toilet paper in psych class, uh, to presenting research in Europe to making the leap from academia into the world of user experience. This conversation is packed with insight for anyone struggling with the uncertainty that comes with navigating professional life. We talk about what it means to be the first in your family, the emotional trade-offs of moving across the country, And how it feels to realize your side quests are actually part of your main story. There's so much to admire in how Jess approached each pivot, curious, observant, and always committed to helping people. So let's get into it. Okay, we're here with Dr. Jess Mendoza, cognitive psychologist and UX researcher. Welcome to the show, Jess.

Jess Mendoza: 1:45

Thank you for having me here, Varun. I appreciate your time and having me at this wonderful podcast on this lovely Friday afternoon.

Varun Rajan: 1:53

Absolutely. so I have a ton of questions for you. We've obviously talked before. You have so many insights into what work is looking like today and the direction that it might be going in. but first and foremost, I'd love to know, a little bit more about you.

Jess Mendoza: 2:08

Yeah. Thank you. so who I am, my name's Jess Mendoza. I am an older sibling, the oldest one. So I was the Guinea pig of the family.

Varun Rajan: 2:18

Okay.

Jess Mendoza: 2:19

yep. First born daughter, first gen college student, first to graduates, and, um, with a doctorate degree in my family. And then I thought I was gonna go into academia. Then I found out, oh, maybe not. Let me make a U-turn real quick. And I ended up in ux. And some things I'm passionate about are anything about human psychology and the way that we interact with technology. I find that to be a really interesting subject. When I was growing up, I would hear a lot of friends talking about how They were using their technology in their home. Like I remember we didn't have a PlayStation until way later. And then when we finally did have a computer, like those big boxy kind, my mom would play tomb raider with us. And I just thought this is so cool. How do they make this? And so I got really into gaming and stuff and that

Varun Rajan: 3:07

Amazing.

Jess Mendoza: 3:08

turn into my passion. but outside of that, I enjoy just spending time with friends, family, and painting. I really like painting and anything art related.

Varun Rajan: 3:18

Wow, that's wonderful. if I were to ask you about the beginning of your career or your education, how far back would you go? where would you start the story of Jess's career?

Jess Mendoza: 3:30

if I do go back to high school, I feel like I'd be a good starting

Varun Rajan: 3:33

I.

Jess Mendoza: 3:33

because being first gen, Hearing peers talking about their SATs and oh, they're, I'm gonna apply to this college and that college. And my parents not really having a background with that to guide me through. It was hard. So I'd be questioning like, why are you guys taking an exam on a Saturday? Not knowing. the benefits of it, the purpose behind it. And then I realized, okay, I should start thinking about my future. So I'd go to the career center at my high school. Didn't get a ton of information on how to go about college applications, but then I learned you can start with community college. And so I started there doing my general education, still was very focused on people interactions at the time in community college, I was majoring in like nursing, so I wanted to be a registered nurse.'cause I had this affinity towards I love helping people. I wanna make'em feel better. I wanna be of good service to them. Until we started to take anatomy class and they showed like this video. Of like a surgeon peeling back the skin of so much face and I passed out and I was like, this is not for me. So I changed majors, I used all my credits and I was like, okay, I'm gonna do psychology and minor in anthropology and see where that takes me. Then I hit this fork. There was this one class called Research Methods, and I got to conduct my very first experiment. It was a social experiment for class, and I had a lot of fun with it and. The project was about understanding if people would stop to tell you about an awkward moment. So we had staged that I would put a piece of toilet paper hanging out of my pants and walk around just, and then my friends in the class were observing to see gender distribution of males, females in the age range of who would tell you if something's more awkward. We didn't have anybody tell us like, but they recorded like how many people looked, how many people pointed and giggled. And it was like even distribution for both. But both genders felt awkward about like, how do I intervene with that? So that was like, that's fun. Like I wanna do more experiments like that. And I remember the professor at the time, she was like, you can do a whole career. On research, and I didn't know this. As soon as I found out, I was like, how? So then I narrowed down, went to Dominguez Hills, tried to find my way into a research laboratory. At the time, there was the George Marsh cognition, laboratory, and that was specialized with understanding how we interact with technology and the rest is history. I went into graduate school at the University of Alabama and completed my doctorate degree. And now I'm a researcher.

Varun Rajan: 6:13

that's incredible. what sparked the interest in technology specifically? It's a, it's a bit of a jump to go from, it was really funny to see how people interacted in this toilet paper situation, to how we interact with computers and what that means about us. I'm not challenging it at all. I'm just curious where the interest in technology.

Jess Mendoza: 6:31

there, right? that interest had always been underlying, I just didn't know how to look at it from the lens of an experiment, from the lens of research, but I had always been interested because. were smartphones being introduced. back then there were razors and like blackberries and the little

Varun Rajan: 6:46

Right.

Jess Mendoza: 6:46

and everyone had them. And like I had my little Nokia and I was just like, okay, there's not much I could do with this play. The snake game really good battery lasted

Varun Rajan: 6:55

That snake game is underrated.

Jess Mendoza: 6:57

seeing the way that. People's social interactions evolved of okay, now everyone starts taking selfies. Now everyone's using MySpace now. There's like this whole clique of who's popular in the top eight friends, and I was just thinking like all of this is. Pretty arbitrary. We didn't have these problems before, and so that was always like a lingering thought. And so to that course with the experiments and the toilet paper, that's when I was like, okay, I did this for fun. But I wanna understand more deeply why do we associate this technology uses with like status? there's this world here that we're projecting that is only half of what we've lived or even less. that. It's just like our little highlight reel and people are attributing so much to it. that really got me and I was just like observing changes. And my grandma would come visit and be like, oh, everyone's on their phones. there's kids on their phones. We're not even talking to each other. And so yeah, that's where it came from.

Varun Rajan: 7:59

tell me about, when you went to Alabama, did you had completed your undergrad, and then what were you aiming to do? What came next? What were the other opportunities on the table? one of the things that I try to explore in these conversations is what were your push and pull factors? were there, was there something that was in front of you that felt like the logical next step that you moved away from? Were there other opportunities that you were weighing trade offs, or were you pretty dead set on one set of things that you wanted to pursue?

Jess Mendoza: 8:26

Yeah. so that was actually another push and pull moment for me. So once I got into Dominguez Hills and I started volunteering at the laboratory, I started hearing more talk on other students. And professors too, encouraging us, Hey, get involved in research, you might wanna explore graduate school. And I was like, what? What is that? Isn't that really expensive? And then they introduced me to things like the McNair Scholarship Program, which has been an amazing program and has helped hundreds and thousands of underserved, students get into these technology sectors, science, technology, engineering, math, to be able to push their career to a new level and. Just being exposed to that really made me rethink what am I going to do? And I was like, this close to graduating. And then they were like, no, you should apply. And I applied. I didn't hear anything. There was no yes, no. Some people were saying, if you didn't hear back, it might be a no. And then there was this alumni. his name is Kevin, Dr. Kevin Montez, and he actually came back to visit and talk about his experience. He's like, yeah, I went to graduate school. I finished, I completed my degree, and now I'm a professor here. And I remember asking him like, what was it like when you were a McNair scholar and all that? And he's you'd be a great candidate. And I was like, I applied but I haven't heard back. no kidding. He was like, let's go to the office right now. And he marched with me to the McNair office at Tam Hills they were like, we are so sorry. we did accept you. You had an acceptance. I don't know how it didn't get to you, but we

Varun Rajan: 10:03

Huh.

Jess Mendoza: 10:03

here. And I was like, what? so clerical error. But I was in for a while and did not know about it. So they were able to like, get me in, continue the rest of the program. And one of the things that the McNair Scholars does is you're applying to different graduate programs. you're aiming to go into a PhD track where you ideally not only do your PhD, but you complete your master's along the way. that's the goal. And so once I did that, I was like, this doesn't limit me anymore.'cause I thought I wasn't able to afford any of the applications. But with these types of scholarship programs in place, people like me could. Understand, okay, now I have a network, a community to go to who has either explored this area, has been here before, or mentored others to success in that area. And I just felt like I had a new world open to me. if I hadn't been a part of that program, I don't think I'd be where I am today. If I hadn't gone to Dominguez Hills, I wouldn't be where I am today because that's where I got exposed to research. And so that was a big push and pull moment for me and. I had applied various universities throughout the country. I got accepted into Cal State Fullerton for the master's, Kansas State University. Had interviewed with Utah and Oklahoma State University, and then ultimately Alabama was my decision because. They were offering full funding for the time being there, and the match of my research interests matched the per the principal investigator's research interest. And so with that match there, I was like, okay, I could see myself blending my interests with theirs and being successful in thriving in that space.

Varun Rajan: 11:48

Wonderful. tell me more about your time there.

Jess Mendoza: 11:54

Yeah, so it was really different. In California. I mean, I'm a homebody. I like to be at home with friends and family, like I don't go out that much. And it was true back then too. So it was a big shock for me to go from like I see my family every day. I drive to my mom's, drive to my grandma's house every day. I would bounce back and forth from house to house'cause Dominguez was right in the middle to moving across the country and not having access to my community and my support network. It was. It was hard,

Varun Rajan: 12:27

Yeah, I can imagine. did you enjoy the work? How long were you there for? What were the kind of major transitions, during your time there? I.

Jess Mendoza: 12:36

Yeah, so being really excited my first year. I was scared and excited. I think probably. 70% scared, 30% excited. And I also felt this like tremendous amount of guilt going there because I remember talking with my family and I was like, that means I'm gonna have to go outta state and. My mom having chronic illness in her back. For me, I felt like I should be there with her helping her, with my brothers and guiding them through finishing school. So I felt a tremendous amount of guilt. But then I also was like, if I don't do this, this was the whole purpose. Like my dad would work his butt off in construction, get up really early for us to have access to these opportunities. So I was like, I'm not gonna just decline it'cause I'm scared. So that was really hard, to get over. But once I did get over there, I think the first semester was again, still really hard at finding who my people were, like who my support network was. They did have a program called Tie Together. Which I don't know if it's still there. I hope it is. And it was a, it was helpful. they pair you with somebody who's also first gen and an alumni too, and a professor too. So you have somebody to go to of Hey, is this typical of the graduate experience or I just not be here? Is this imposter syndrome? And so having that helped, I still did struggle a lot again because I'm a homebody, so it's I force myself to go out to these events, that's when I start to find my community. But then at the same time, it's like sad and like scared because I'm not home and I'm not there to help my family. And I was just like, oh, I feel guilty going. So it was a lot of internal emotional push and pulls happening.

Varun Rajan: 14:31

Yeah. and tell me how long were you there for and how often did that sense of that, that sense of like duty to your family and not being around, did that abate over time? or was it like a steady state the entire time?

Jess Mendoza: 14:46

it was like a steady state the entire time,

Varun Rajan: 14:49

Wow.

Jess Mendoza: 14:50

I was there for about six years. And then the pandemic, I ended up finishing my degree in seven because I, right in the middle of my data collection COVID was like, no, not now. I was

Varun Rajan: 15:02

Right.

Jess Mendoza: 15:02

So yeah, I was there for about six. Six years and then the last year I finished it online.

Varun Rajan: 15:09

Gotcha. tell me about some of those joyful moments. did they come from the community that you had built? Did they come from the work that you were doing? and obviously be curious about what were you doing, while you were there? What were some of the things that you were like learning and engaged with at the time as well?

Jess Mendoza: 15:25

Yeah. I had made friends with some international students and they used to have these events where they would take us and go explore cities nearby or like just do events nearby. So I got very involved in like the student body life of, okay, I'm going to go to the graduate school nights and. They'd get all the graduate students together, there'd be free food. And I think the free food is probably what got me there. I was

Varun Rajan: 15:49

Huge draw. Always. Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 15:51

Let's go with my lunchbox for tomorrow. I'm just kidding. But yeah. And then like meeting people there, if I knew at least one person that would go with me, and I still remember this person very fondly. His name is Ja Wall, he was in operations and logistics And it was, we would always go together to these events. We'd be like, if you're going, I'll go and we're like, okay, let's bring our little lunch boxes and slowly, little by little, we'd grow our network. Eventually he got his own little community. I got my own little community going on. Then it was part of presenting at conferences that I found fun because I enjoy making presentations even though I don't enjoy being the. Center of the spotlight. I enjoy being the one that brings all this information. It's Hey, look, you can know this too, and you can learn from this and you can go and do your own thing too. And that's something that brought me joy. So making those presentations for the students, preparing for class, putting funny memes in my lectures. Going to apply abroad. Like just, I remember applying and thinking like, I don't know if it's gonna happen, but if it does, I'll go. And then it would happen. Like I got accepted to these conferences abroad and then the university had programs in place where they would fund you to travel. And I was like, okay, I am only applying to, to travel abroad and present my research abroad from now on.

Varun Rajan: 17:12

Amazing.

Jess Mendoza: 17:13

I was able to go to Netherlands, Spain. Switzerland. I went on my own will, but because I was already there from a funded trip to economic society in Netherlands, I was like, okay, I'll pay outta pocket by myself to explore Switzerland and see if there's an opportunity for me postdoc. I stopped at a laboratory there and just having access to like other academics and understanding what they do and all the cool research and tools that they're using, I think that was also joyful.

Varun Rajan: 17:43

That's excellent. tell us a little bit about what you were learning and exploring from an academic standpoint or research standpoint.

Jess Mendoza: 17:52

Yeah, no, that's a lot because I

Varun Rajan: 17:55

I.

Jess Mendoza: 17:55

there's coursework that we were going into, like understanding statistics, but then I think of the ones that I found most interesting was when we got to teach research methods. And so getting, we started off with a small classroom, and I think I still remember one of my classroom, it was section nine of 3 56 or 3 57. oh my gosh, that class, that group of students, they have a special place in my heart and I hope that they're all doing well today because just remember them all being like, I could empathize with them. They're like, why do we have to take a two part class and then this? And I was like. Okay, how can I make this something that they look forward to coming to and have them be co-owners of this learning experience? So I would bring some topics to the class and ask them, okay, where are you struggling with the most? This is an assessment. it wasn't. It wasn't, but I just didn't want them to feel like it's greater or anything because it was a so long class, I could things for them Specifically according to their needs. Now that gets harder to do as you scale, because then there was this other class that was like 300 students and I was like, I don't know how much I can customize here,

Varun Rajan: 19:07

Right.

Jess Mendoza: 19:08

but I'd have them vote for Hey, would you like to know more about this or this topic when it came to certain forks of information, if sometimes the semesters are cut short sometimes depending on what season it is that you're teaching. But yeah, those are some of the things that. weren't necessarily things that are formal in your learning process. They just happened as part of it. Like we, we did have a class on teaching of psychology, didn't have like formal of okay, is like rule by rule, what you follow. It's more of like conceptually, if you're aiming for these areas, you're good. Good luck.

Varun Rajan: 19:43

that makes a lot of sense. what else, did you explore during your time there? before you wrapped up? Were you, obviously there were a lot of research that you went to a lot of different conferences. curious about if there was any work that you did, any clients you had, what kind of, what kind of opportunities, did you get to explore while you were there outside of the research and academic setting?

Jess Mendoza: 20:03

Okay. so I got a couple of opportunities that I got to explore, and both opportunities opened like a different world for me. And I think that's when I started to learn more about ux. but not really. Like I didn't know I was learning about it then, but looking back, it makes sense. So one of the opportunities was working as a contractor, a third party contractor for Mercedes-Benz. So this was a company called Evans Mahon, and they were led by an industrial organizational psychologist. And what they did is Mercedes would hire them we would go and assess people, the employees there for their advancement in their careers. So a lot of the people were going there. They wanted to get a promotion into a leadership role, and so we would understand, okay. how do we assess if they're fit for leadership? And so they'd have some tasks that they do. They'd, some scenarios that they play out, and we would take notes on that, on their behavior, and then give that to the PIs running it. And then they would inform Mercedes on which candidates have the skillset move forward. Not just technical skillset, but the people skillset. And I thought that was. A lot of fun. It was just like, it's like it makes you wonder of like, why don't we have this more often of the people skills like an assessment of people skills. that's really important when it comes to leadership, having that emotional intelligence. So that was really fun. I

Varun Rajan: 21:34

What.

Jess Mendoza: 21:35

more of it, but Yeah.

Varun Rajan: 21:37

Did you, and what was this? Was it like a, was it a, like an internship? Was it a, you said it was a kind of a contract role, through a third party. were you doing this, while you were actively in grad school doing research and stuff too? I know, one of the things that you had mentioned is you liked to always have side quests going, and we'll talk more about that, where you are today, obviously. But, But I'm curious, I'm trying to fill out the picture of what Jess was doing during this time.

Jess Mendoza: 22:03

Yeah, so it was a side quest. It was like sometimes they would send out calls to people and say, okay, here's the Department of Psychology would email the entire group and say, Hey, we have this available for the summer. If anyone's interested, go ahead and email them. It was one of those types of things, and I guess. Not many people replied to that. Maybe not because of lack of interest, but because everyone had such diverse interests of their own that there was something for everyone of the time. So how that went about. And I did that mostly in the summers. So I did that for two summers and sometimes during the winter. yeah, that was definitely one

Varun Rajan: 22:44

cool.

Jess Mendoza: 22:45

quests.

Varun Rajan: 22:45

and were you conducting the assessments, putting them together? and also like doing the kind of like actual, analysis of the assessments on the other end. Were you making recommendations for people or was it more like a system of these people scored in these areas and that's what, Mercedes-Benz was prioritizing at the time? I'm curious about how you were tracking outcomes and stuff too.

Jess Mendoza: 23:06

yeah. So without saying too much, because I don't know if we have to be careful about how much we say and don't say, we don't wanna reveal their business model.

Varun Rajan: 23:15

Of course. Sure.

Jess Mendoza: 23:16

I'll give you an overview of what it was like a day in the life. So we'd come to the Mercedes plant and we would work with these clients and they'd be some scenarios that were already pre-prepared by Evans Mahome. And we would go through the scenarios, go through these mock interviews with them. And record notes. And after that, our notes would be used to inform decisions. But those decisions were not made by us. those decisions were made by Evans Mahon and we were in charge of recording the qualitative aspects of the data.

Varun Rajan: 23:54

Gotcha. Cool. Is there anything else about your time, in grad school that you would like to share otherwise we can, move on from that as well from that time of your life?

Jess Mendoza: 24:05

one of the things I remember being really proud about. another side quiz that I did was there was this Google Public Policy fellowship. I remember applying, wanting to apply and being a little bit nervous about it.'cause I was like, I don't know, this seems like it's really competitive. And I spoke to some people and they were like, you should apply. You probably won't get it, but you should apply anyway. And I was like. Thanks, I guess thanks for believing in me, but I applied and I got it. So I was really proud of that. Went to, San Jose, the headquarters of the I Keep Safe Coalition and that specific nonprofit was sponsored by Google and so my role there was to understand how do we. Implement ways for educators to help their students navigate the digital space in a responsible manner. And they

Varun Rajan: 25:05

Very cool.

Jess Mendoza: 25:06

called Be a Pro that was like their, the pillars of balancing technology of online and offline time. Ethics, making sure that you're not just like downloading stuff like Limewire back in the day into MySpace days Ethics, responsibility for what you are posting and how you're posting relationships, making sure that you understand the relationships that are online.'cause these days, like you don't know who you're talking with, you don't know if it's actually the person you think, and then. Online security So making sure that children understood about how to protect their passwords, what information to not give for social engineers who might be trying to prey on them. And that was really rewarding because it made me think of the way that we live in this world a little different. I remember. back in the nineties there would be drills of don't talk to strangers. And now it's I gotta order stranger to gimme a ride to the airport

Varun Rajan: 26:07

Right.

Jess Mendoza: 26:08

to teach this to our youth so that they're prepared and sharp when they're out there in the world.

Varun Rajan: 26:14

That's so cool. what was the format of delivering that information and the guidance? Were you working directly with educators? Were these seminars, were you putting together like online coursework for them? What did that actually, what did that end result look like?

Jess Mendoza: 26:31

That looked like putting together curriculums for K through 12. So we'd have like specific ones for. elementary school students. We also did digital eBooks of, I forget what the mascot's called. It's like faux paw, the something, and it's like a little cat that's like a digital cat. but yeah, I guess

Varun Rajan: 26:52

That's cute.

Jess Mendoza: 26:53

it digestible for parents to also understand and educators. So it was mostly the curriculum building.

Varun Rajan: 27:00

Yeah, this is really interesting. Every, all your side quests, both, the side quest that you've talked about during your time in grad school actually really speak to me because one of which is like workforce training and advancement, which is something that I'm like deeply interested in and have been for years and I've been in education for a long time and it ties very closely to. All of the stuff that you've explored since then, right? Is like, how are we interacting with technology? how is it that we went from stranger danger to, we rely on strangers through technology to, to transact and get like day-to-day things done. and like staying abreast of that and having an academic lens to it and making that impact. when you wrapped up your time at grad school, what came next? and set the scene for me a little bit. you had talked about a few of the things that you were really proud of and that you had come away with, what, how did that inform the next steps that you took?

Jess Mendoza: 27:50

I think at the time, because when I first started my graduate adventure. I was set on the idea of, okay, once I get my degree, I'll apply to be a university professor and I would like to establish my own laboratory where I do research on psychology and technology. slowly I, throughout the process I was just thinking oh, this is really, sure if this is something I still want to do'cause I really love interacting with the students. But the process of having to. Be a tenured track professor. it's a long road. That application itself is a long road, like you need to apply seven different part parts of the application. To do one. And you also don't get to choose. you do get to choose, but the options are limited. Like it's really competitive.'cause if I wanted to stay in California, it's super competitive. Everyone wants to be in California and I was not open to applying out of state again. I was like, never again do I want to be this far from my family

Varun Rajan: 28:54

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 28:55

be in driving distance with them. And that's when I started to realize what. What do I do? There's gotta be other things that I can do. And those opportunities afforded me with experiences that were like, wait, these are alternate paths too. this is not just a side quest. This could be my main quest. And so I started to explore that. And one, I think I remember if I told you this on our first conversation, like one of my committee members when I was doing my master's, he. It didn't show up because he had an interview with Google and I remember that was like, was like, whoa. that's crazy. How did you do that? where are you doing? He's like, you can do it too. It, the role I'm getting is a UX research role. Here's what they do. And that's when I learned about it. towards the end of my dissertation and all that. That had stuck with me and I had been looking up like, how do I apply? And I had just been applying blindly and not really knowing how to translate my skills. So although I did get a few interviews, I wasn't successful in them because I didn't know how to market myself in that space.

Varun Rajan: 29:59

quick question, not to keep this on grad school. What was your dissertation about?

Jess Mendoza: 30:04

Oh, it was on the relationship between technology and way finding, so getting from point A to point B and how

Varun Rajan: 30:11

Okay.

Jess Mendoza: 30:12

messages while you're navigating a path might influence your memory of what you see along that path and we had an experiment where we had this pre-designated route around campus. I remember thinking, okay, I have to walk this route myself and scout it out. I'm gonna take pictures of the route of what the correct way is, and then I'm gonna take random pictures that were not in the route. So I would have us, when I say us, I had research assistants, thankfully at the time, had to, and they were helping me. text messages to these people while they were on the route. We had a group that received a low amount of texts and one that received a higher amount of text messages. And it was funny because like we had to tell them, you have to make your way back to where we started, but you have to take this path. And they studied the map in advance and they were like, first thing everyone was saying was like, can I take a picture of this? And we were like, no, you cannot. You gotta use your brain. I'm sorry, big brain chime. But so then they would go. the path they didn't know. We use a little bit of deception and we debrief them at the end, but we use a little deception and we told'em, okay, you just gotta walk this path and then just have your phone all loud. Okay. They're like, alright. When they would feel uneasy, they'd be like, which way did we go? And we'd have to just generally tell them, we can't point you in the direction, but you're good. And we just do it like that. When they got back to the library, they were like, finally, that was like not bad of a walk. A lot of people actually were happy to go on a walk. They're like, I should go on these types of walks more often without, without us forcing it on them. They were like, we got a lot of exercise

Varun Rajan: 31:51

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 31:52

it was a plus. didn't explore that variable though, but they liked it. And when they got back, they were presented with a screen that showed them the same map and some of the pictures. Of things they might have seen along the way, and their job was to drag and drop those images onto where they believe they were on the map. And of course, people who were on that higher spectrum of receiving text messages did worse than people who were on the lower end. we expected this, but we also, what we didn't expect was that it was attributed to their. Like scores with smartphone addiction, I don't wanna say anyone was like addicted, like according to that scale, but they were on higher on that scale. Were doing much, much worse than those who spent less time on their phones and were still receiving the high volume of messages. that was pretty cool to understand.

Varun Rajan: 32:47

Oh, that's super interesting. So those that were basically using their devices specifically to receive some kind of instruction, stayed on the path that they were supposed to stay on. Whereas the folks that were like maybe more glued to their phones, they were distracted by all of the other things that they were seeing and did not. it did not commit as readily to the path that you had laid out for them. is that fair to say? Am I understanding that right?

Jess Mendoza: 33:12

Yeah. The only part that I would correct in that

Varun Rajan: 33:14

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 33:15

that the text messages weren't telling them about where to go at all. They were random. they were arbitrary. They was just for the sake of sending a text notification, the sake for distracting them. So

Varun Rajan: 33:25

ah.

Jess Mendoza: 33:25

like we were telling them, go left or go right or anything. We were just sending them random messages

Varun Rajan: 33:30

Gotcha.

Jess Mendoza: 33:31

they were too. Now I'm curious. I wanna go dig up my dissertation after this. Yes.

Varun Rajan: 33:35

That's, oh man. I'm sure that'll be a fun, fun trip down memory lane. Okay, You wrap up grad school, you were considering a career in academia, doing a PhD, being a professor. but the pathway to getting there was, it sounds like it was pretty bureaucratic and your options were also limited. There were a bunch of life considerations about being in California that you wanted to make sure that you didn't take a chance on. So there was. Too long of a pathway towards figuring out whether you could continue to live the life that you wanted to live while also doing the things that you really cared about doing from a work perspective, like research and working with students and all that kind of stuff. But then. You speak to this person that had an interview at Google and you start to learn a little bit more about UX research. is that an accurate kind of summary of where you were at that point? And also, UX research is very similar to some of the stuff that you had done. And obviously, research is in the name. it feels like, okay, you've discovered this new thing again for the first time. That oh, maybe I could do this and this is actually gonna be something that I will enjoy.

Jess Mendoza: 34:41

yeah, that sounds right. Yeah,

Varun Rajan: 34:43

Cool.

Jess Mendoza: 34:44

I was just like exploring like once I had that conversation with that professor, I just immediately started looking up like what do they do? What's the role? Like looking up these videos on YouTube, there's this channel called Aona Speaks, or Aona Talks. That was one. There's another YouTuber, I forget his last name, but his first name is Kevin, and he was talking about doing user sessions at a coffee shop. I was like, okay. So getting experience is not necessarily tied to, you have to get in the industry, but then when you start applying, they definitely want you to have that industry experience. So

Varun Rajan: 35:18

Totally.

Jess Mendoza: 35:19

how do I get experience in this role if I don't have experience in this sector? But I had all this academic experience and I was just like going back and forth of not feeling oh, did I not do the right thing? did I just waste. A bunch of time studying this one thing. And in my mind, like I had been so trapped in my dissertation topic of like way finding and smartphone usage, and I was like, I don't know if anyone in the industry is gonna be interested in that And then it did. I was just like, it's like when you get in your head and then you take a step back and you're like, wait a minute. This fits into the bigger picture. So it

Varun Rajan: 35:58

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 35:59

time to step out of that. I really realized that I have things to contribute. I know some things. In fact, I know a lot of things about this one niche, so how do I translate that into something that's marketable? And that became I guess the pre journey into UX was, let me understand that problem space first so I can know how to navigate the rest.

Varun Rajan: 36:19

Was there anything in terms of what you saw looking for roles or conversations that you were having that caused that to click that light bulb moment of I. Wait a minute, this is directly relevant to where I want to go. My background is directly relevant to where I want to go. I'm just curious what solidified it for you and o obviously, as someone yourself who advises people on their career journeys, how to pivot, how to understand where they're going next, and stuff like that. Kind of in your spare time, what would you recommend to someone that's maybe stuck in that space?

Jess Mendoza: 36:55

Oh, okay. first thing is to understand that your value isn't tied to any one role. That was really hard to get out of. Okay, because I was like for so many years I was like, okay, I'm going to do this career. I'm gonna have this title, and then this is the one role that you can have related to this career. That thinking that way for so long narrows perception of other opportunities that are available to you. So the way I was able to get out of that was by networking. And networking. I tell everyone like that is key. Like it, it's gonna be what you make out of it when it comes to networking. If you're just gonna add people and say, Hey, do you have a job for me, that's gonna flop really hard. And unfortunately I learned the hard way. I didn't go about asking it like that, but I learned the hard way that it takes. A little bit of finesse network. You don't just do it because you're trying to get information with them. I started approaching it in the way of like, how can I learn and build meaningful connections with a smaller group of people that I can go to for guidance and could help me? Because you, you do wanna have quantity and quality, but you wanna focus at your very first networking on. Quality first, and then you can reach out and just go ham on that connect button. Because having a network is so instrumental to the opportunities that will be presented to you. So that would be the top thing I advise anyone.

Varun Rajan: 38:32

Cool. and was it the networking that really helped solidify or like fine tuning your networking approach that helped you solidify, making that connection of oh, I, here's, what I have to offer is actually very relevant to where I'm trying to go.

Jess Mendoza: 38:48

I wanna say yes because putting yourself out there. that's something when you continuously put yourself out there, you start to learn very quickly what information you wanna give to people to know about. okay, this is what this person needs to know. They're a hiring manager. Let me position myself like this when I'm having this conversation. It's like code switching, right? Like you go hang out with your friends. Like you could just go and be like, Hey, what's up, homie? But you can't do that when you're professionally networking. You can't just walk up to someone and be like, Hey, I found this funny meme. nowadays networking has changed. I think you can do that now, honestly,

Varun Rajan: 39:21

Yeah,

Jess Mendoza: 39:21

hits up my inbox with a meme. We're probably gonna be friends,

Varun Rajan: 39:24

let's hope this falls in the right ears.

Jess Mendoza: 39:26

Yeah. it's like you gotta understand how to position yourself, put yourself out there, but know your audience. Know who it is that's listening. Like I think one of the things that really helped me was like, okay, now I was starting, this was back when Twitter was Twitter and they had something called the Twitterverse. following hashtags related to UX and like pivoting and career transitions. I was on TikTok following those threads too and just doing all that I could. And everything that they were saying was network, and put yourself out there. unless you do It. It's hard to do it. And me being an introvert, I can empathize so much with anyone else who's like having trouble hovering over that connect button and like hesitating to click. Just click it. It doesn't matter if they add you or not. Just keep doing it until somebody does. And when you have a little message that ties to it that sounds like you, and it's a meaningful connection of something that you have in common with this person and what you might learn from them, I think that helps as well.

Varun Rajan: 40:24

Totally. So you're in a spot where you're starting to network a lot that's helping you understand. What you have to bring to the table in this new career that you want to take, that you are also discovering from these networking calls, right? About UX research. what comes next?

Jess Mendoza: 40:40

After you get comfortable with networking, after you get comfortable with how to present yourself out in the digital public world then the next thing that comes is again, choosing core people who you feel you can strongly. Build this relationship with this professional relationship with, and I met a couple people. One of them, her name is Kim Menchavez, and she was super instrumental in helping me turn around the luck that I was having with. My interviews'cause I was getting interviewed and I did not know how to speak the language that makes it sound like I know what I'm doing. Like clearly I did have this understanding of what research was and like how to build a UX case and the toolkit you use and how do you decide what methods you're gonna use next. But I wasn't explaining it in the language that was sounding like landing in their ears. I was still explaining it in academic speak and that was. Not good for me.

Varun Rajan: 41:41

Huh.

Jess Mendoza: 41:42

she was very instrumental with that. And then I had somebody also, they were like, Hey, at this organization that, I work at, they're hiring, I know their team is usually growing in the UX department Maybe I can pass your contact information to them and maybe you can ask them for feedback on what you have so far. And I remember I waited two weeks to actually send that email because I was so nervous. I was in my head thinking like, oh my God, I'm not good enough. I don't have the experience. I don't know how to speak business. I don't know how to, like stakeholders, what? So all of this was just like anxiety in my head and I was like, okay, I just gotta send that email and say, hi, this is who I am and this is where I am in my journey. And at that point I was taking this Google UX Coursera course on And as I was taking the course, I was actively building out my portfolio. It didn't look that great because, I. was just like, when he comes to storyboarding, like I drew my own little pictures somewhere. I have those hand drawn pictures and I stuck that in the portfolio I was meeting with them and the hiring manager was like, Hey, so what's up? And I told them, thank you for your time. I know that I a lot of. People in the job market are having trouble at this time, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding what it is that hiring managers and teams are looking for in a candidate, which you mind walking me through your thoughts on what I have today. And I had my portfolio, they gave me some feedback, and I had the free version of Zoom at the time. So in the middle of the conversation it just goes and the conversation ends. And I was like, oh, no. so

Varun Rajan: 43:22

Oh no.

Jess Mendoza: 43:23

let them know, thank you for your time. I've captured the feedback, and again, I appreciated it. I'm so sorry. The call got short and their response was, let's do a follow up call. I want to see how you apply that feedback in your portfolio. And that was a game changer for me because after that call, I came back, showed them the feedback, and I had learned that they had been hiring. So I was like, okay, given what you know about me today and what I implemented and the feedback, do you think somebody like me should apply to that role that you have opening? Because wanna be mindful both of our times here, I know applications take time. What do you think? And they were like, yeah, you should apply if you feel like you're ready to apply. I've seen the feedback. I think this is something that we typically do in our workflow process. You've clearly shown that you could take feedback and all, so just apply and see where it takes you. And I was like, okay, cool. Got interview next week and I was not expecting that. one day I was doing like my paintings, trying not to think too hard about the job market.'cause in my mind I had already had a lot of rejection, so I was not expecting anything from it. it's nice that I got feedback anyway. Maybe this will be another opportunity to get more feedback. And they called me with an offer and I dropped my paintbrush'cause I was painting at the time to get rid of the anxiety. And I dropped my paintbrush and I was like, oh snap, I'm getting hired. Yay. And yeah, that's how I made that pivot into UX

Varun Rajan: 44:48

Yeah. tell me a little bit more about, about that job. where was it? what were the kinds of things that you were working on? What did you like about it? yeah, that's awesome.

Jess Mendoza: 44:57

actually today is my three year anniversary at that job.

Varun Rajan: 45:01

Congratulations.

Jess Mendoza: 45:03

you. Thank you. So it's a FinTech organization that they service like a third party service to help manage loans and data for credit unions and financial institutions. And I remember, the. It. I was really excited. I was like, whew. Finally I can rest. I can just like. Indulge this 30, 60, 90 days and learn all I can about the organization and do my job and make it to go. And I couldn't have been more wrong. There was a lot more learning to take place. The journey was not over that is life. you're always learning. It is just how it happens, changes. And without getting too far into it, I think. Seeing this advancements in technology, I think that's what we need to remember as a human race. We are built to evolve in this space. We're built to continue to learn new skills. that is our strength as a species, I believe. but yeah, going back to the job, like I had to learn about how, what was the business model? What was the business about? How did they make money? are the different departments that I'm gonna work with?'cause now I'm not working solo. Like I went from working solo all the time. I was being the investigator, I was being the one managing the project, doing the recruitment, designing the studies, designing the tests and experiments to now there's a team that's gonna take designing. You just focus on research. But part of research is understand the problem, understand the subject matter as much as you can, and insurance and finance like. Okay, I'm, I was transitioning from a broke graduate student. I would know nothing about insurance and finance, so that was a big learning curve for me. And then of course, all the corporate lingo in between. I was like, what? Okay. The cannery and the what. Okay.

Varun Rajan: 46:46

and there's a couple of things here too that I'm noticing as either a trend or kind of an evolution as a thematic backdrop of the story, which is, Which is So the way that you learn to network, and learn, incorporate feedback, a lot of the things that I'm hearing are like about your networking and maybe what you would advise someone to do when it comes to the code switching. there's the. Translating all of the things that you've done from an academic framework to a more corporate framework, that's one thing, right? So it's like trying to find the messaging that's actually going to land with the people that you're talking to. And in addition to that, there is this idea of being open to quality conversations, which to me sounds like. Hey, just be earnest about seeking feedback and learning, because that's what you did. And ultimately what that showed them was your ability to be a good working partner because you were able to take feedback, implement it in a way that made you a, in a way that made you an attractive candidate. And also, showed your working style in a lot of ways, which I think is really cool.

Jess Mendoza: 47:56

Yeah.

Varun Rajan: 47:57

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 47:57

that was quite a journey. But I think the feedback thing, I wanna pull on that a little bit because the feedback thing was something that, going into this graduate program. You get used to being torn up, like you get used to having your, all of your documents marked in red. And so that's why when I received that feedback I was like, oh, I could do this. it still was different. It's not, I'm not gonna say it was a cakewalk, it was definitely different. I was learning something new. But I think that you come from this academic background and you're used to this harsh feedback and it's so repetitive and then you just know like you to take that. Everything else comes more of okay, I can do that. I can obviously change this. Like I have no problem with that because it's not like I have to go through my 20 pages of my literature review. It's just a smaller chunk. So

Varun Rajan: 48:49

Right.

Jess Mendoza: 48:49

really happy with the feedback and I was like, yes, I could definitely work with this.

Varun Rajan: 48:54

That's excellent. That's awesome.

49:02

So this was part one of my conversation with Jess Mendoza, and I hope you found it as rich and inspiring as I did. What struck me the most was how Jess used every chapter in her story, community college, grad school, side gigs, fellowship. As an experiment in self-discovery, she didn't just fall into UX research. She reverse engineered it by paying attention, asking really good questions, and showing up even when the path wasn't clear on how to get through, and for anyone feeling stuck in their career. Pivot. Take her advice seriously. Your value is not tied to just one role. Start with quality connections. Be honest about where you're at, and show people what it's like to work with you, not just what you've done. in the next part of our conversation, we get into how Jess keeps her skills sharp, how she thinks about AI in the workplace, and what motivates her to keep learning and mentoring others. That's coming up next week, but until then be well, stay curious and keep following those push and pull signals. If you get a chance, please leave me a review, like the video. If you're watching this on YouTube, um, leave a comment, uh, and I'll catch you soon.