Varun Rajan: 0:06

Hey everyone, Varun Rajan here. Welcome back to the Push-Pull podcast, where we interview people about their career transitions, specifically the push and pull factors that inform those transitions. today we're picking up with part two of my conversation with Dr. Jess Mendoza, a cognitive psychologist and UX researcher with an extraordinary ability to connect the dots between systems and people, between tech and human empathy. In the first part of our conversation, we followed her amazing story going from being deeply ensconced in the world of academia into how she eventually pivoted into UX research, in technology and in the corporate world. in this half of the conversation, we shift gears into the workplace. How Jess thinks about her role today, what motivates her and why she continues to take on meaningful side quests, that build community and spark curiosity, across her organization. we also talk about ai. Jess is somebody who is earnestly trying to understand how AI fits into her own day-to-day, and she's a huge advocate. For using AI day-to-day on the job and basically trying to figure out how to roll out more AI tooling literacy in the organization that she works at today, We talk about how AI is actually changing, how people learn, communicate, and make decisions at work, and what skills matter most in this new era. She really breaks it down with a lot of clarity, warmth, and a ton of lived insight in terms of the conversation she's been having with her own colleagues on how to encourage adoption in her organization and how to understand where the gaps are. In learning when it comes to driving that adoption in the first place. you know, I've had a lot of conversations with people about AI and will likely have more on the podcast going forward, I think it's very. Easy to get deep into the weeds about specifics of different tools. But what I really appreciate about Jess is she makes the trends that she's seeing in terms of AI adoption in the workplace very accessible. I think the way that she approaches it will help you feel a lot more at ease about Getting a little bit more curious and tech forward, uh, when it comes to using AI tools or how to even think about how it might be able to help you in your day-to-day work. If you're navigating change at work, wondering how to bring more of yourself to the job, or trying to stay grounded as technology evolves, this episode is for you. So without any further ado, let's dive in. cool. Jess: tell me a little bit about, what else is important to you today? What are the kinds of things you're doing on the job? Tell me, whatever you can or are excited about with respect to your side quest. you've obviously been in UX research for quite some time now. and you're also obviously thinking a lot about jobs and careers and the way that they're evolving. tell me a little bit about what you care about, and, what are the things that you're actively exploring, whether it's on the job or, offline.

Jess Mendoza: 3:20

Yeah. Okay. I'll start with on the job, since we're on that topic, or since that's where we left off. So on the job, I continue to have these side quests, like when I got there, I created this community being remote. I was worried about how am I gonna. Build a relationship with my peers because I'm three hours behind. I'm in Pacific Time, they're in East Coast time, and so one of the first things I did was I created this little Yammer Viva Engage Microsoft Gauge community of. Just having a place for us to share our creative version of ourselves. And so through that, I started to know other people in the department, other people outside of the department and what their hobbies were. And so we had that bridge of, Hey, here's something we both enjoy, we're good at doing, or we're interested in doing. And that bonds us together. So when we're struggling with the role, or if I had any questions, I already felt okay, I have the supportive network to go to. We have this relationship already. I can be open and say, Hey, I don't know anything right now about X, Y, and Z. Could you point me in the right direction or resource that I could get my hands-on? that was really helpful. Then as I progressed in, my time at this organization, I got involved with. Something called agile transformation. So we're helping the organization be more agile, understand the principles of the Agile manifesto. My favorite principle is people over processes. Probably you could guess because I do value that human to human connection and that quality of getting to know your peers. And I think the reason why I value that so much is because. We are just so used to clocking in, clocking out, but there's a lot of untapped richness in those interactions that you have with your peers in the day. if you think about it, we spend a lot more time at work than we do our loved ones sometimes, and I want to make that experience. experience all around. And I try to get to know others in a way that makes them feel seen, because that's what I would want as well. So I think that's something I'm really passionate about. And recently I've been helping with technology adoption in the sense of understanding these AI tools, what they are not, what's the limitations of them, what's under the hood, and. How does your personal learning style influence how you use these tools? So making some presentations for the people in my organization to understand like, this isn't scary, like it can be, it definitely can be. but it doesn't have to be

Varun Rajan: 5:56

a couple more threads I'm noticing, there's a parallel with your time in grad school where one of the first things that you felt like you really had to do being in a new place for the first time was. Trying to build that sense of community and support network and trying to connect with people as people, because you were going through something together. And so the relationship building was I. Your instinctual first step when you were in a new environment. And it sounds like, one of the side quests on the job was also a community building relationship building initiative. and the kind of first couple of things that you talked about here we're very much about okay, how do I set up something where we can connect with each other? We're at work, more than we are at home, during our waking hours. So it's important that we are able to be on the same page or build a support network to be there for one another and stuff like that. I'm curious if you had drawn the same parallel. but I think it's really cool.

Jess Mendoza: 6:58

Honestly, I hadn't, like when you said that, I was just like having a moment in my brain, I was like, holy crap, I never noticed that about me So that's really cool. I appreciate that you highlighted that. I honestly hadn't noticed that was like a theme, but you're right. Like now, that I hear that I am like, yeah, you're right. I definitely did gravitate towards I need to have this community. I want, I felt that sense of loneliness in grad school because I didn't have that network that I was thinking like, you know what comes with those feelings or anxiety, stress, sometimes depression. And I was just like, I know the statistics of this one. Out of every five Americans. Will or already have a mental disparity. And that can range from the ones I just mentioned to other spectrums of it. And so I carry that with me. And being in the UX community full of people with empathy and so it was really easy for me to. Let them know Hey, I also wanna improve the human experience beyond the screen by building this little community. Even though course that's not where we're gonna live in the next eight hours 'cause we're here to work. But it does help you feel closer together with those that you're collaborating with. Like you get to see them as a person and when you hear them being frustrated about something, you can understand that, like that frustration. It's not necessarily about you, but maybe there's something that could be done to help both of you get on the same page together again. So I, yeah, I hadn't noticed that theme, so thanks for pointing that out.

Varun Rajan: 8:30

No, totally. one of the things that I'm curious about is, thinking about the side quests that you have at work, and you're really excited talking about pursuing those things. I'm curious about what makes an environment. Conducive to somebody being able to put their creative energy into something that wasn't in the job description that they necessarily signed up for, but they're really passionate to, to pursue while on the job. do you feel supported in that? And what do you think are the components of an environment that encourages that amongst their employees?

Jess Mendoza: 9:08

Yeah. So I would say yes, I did feel supported. It was a big contrast for me because. When I first joined the organization, like they had these little things called friendship calls. And so you just get to know your team member for an hour or 30 minutes and just get to know them for who they are, what they do, what's their role, what product do they work on. they also had this, this little intake form that they gave us. And I really appreciate the leaders who made this because. I am, of course I'm a nerd for behavioral data. And they had this thing where it's like people's communication styles. So I was like, oh yes, I love that they have that. 'cause I was gonna ask them if we could do it and they already had it. So that was great. And I use the crap out of

Varun Rajan: 9:52

Wow.

Jess Mendoza: 9:52

I always go back and reflect of okay, this is how this person wants to be communicated with. It's not always going to be like pinpoint accurate, but it helps you navigate these cross collaborations 'cause you're working with. A lot of people with a lot of different, projects on their hands and to understand okay, if this person's a visual, let me make sure I always present with them visual. If this person's a talker, let me be prepared to write down my key points in advance. So that I can listen first and then I'll have something, so I won't forget what I said. 'cause sometimes you could get in between of like interrupting each other. not because you're trying to be rude, but because you get excited about it when you're having that experience that you're like, wait, I forgot. so I do feel like I was, I was really supported. but there was also some times where I was struggling. Where I was just not knowing where to put my focus 'cause I was learning so much on the job. And then again came that feeling of, oh my gosh, like I have to perform as best as I can here. I always ask what does success look like and what does failure look like? That's always my number one question with interviews. And even after the interview, I wanna know, I remember at my performance review, my first question was, how do you get fired? What are you gonna do to get fired? So I know not to do those things to get fired, and I was just always on the edge of if I make this mistake, like I'm not, I felt like I had something to prove that I might not have the business acumen. I might not have the industry knowledge per se, but I do bring value here and I felt like I had to push for that. And it was just hard because the business pace is way different than academia academia is like a lot slower because you have to look at every single thing. And so having to really understand quickly. much do I need to know before I can keep moving forward is enough so I feel confident that is going in the right direction. And that took me a while to get, but I did have support, from my manager at the time, from my peers at the time. And even now, I would say the composition of our department has changed. Like we've grown. And I do still feel supported and now I feel supported even from other departments. So like we have the AI department now that's, so we have AI and UX and I feel a lot of support in that department and other people who I've networked with from my other side Quest, when I was on the DEI council, I made friends with people there too. So I, I built that network to help me and I could go to them and ask them like. Is this typical of what should be happening right now? And if it's not, how can I improve? I'm always seeking that feedback so I can recalibrate myself and improve myself.

Varun Rajan: 12:35

when you start off on a new initiative, that you come up with, are there folks that you have to convince? Have you learned how to do that better over time? curious about how, or maybe it's about advocating to join a new initiative that you see. Maybe it's with AI or something like that. I'd be curious about an example of. self-advocacy, for yourself to be working on something that you want to,

Jess Mendoza: 12:58

Yeah, so I remember thinking I wanted to get more hands-on experience with we can improve like our communication when it comes to cross collaborations. Because again, like sometimes the onboarding will happen really fast, and this is something that's not unique to this organization. By the way,

Varun Rajan: 13:21

I.

Jess Mendoza: 13:21

is something I hear from peers. Across the industry. Sometimes onboarding happens too fast and the expectations aren't set. And I think having those conversations in place, and that's where Agile comes in hand, comes in handy. It's you have these ceremonies like whether it's your weekly standups or daily standups, and you have your retrospective of things that went right, things that didn't go right, things that could have gone better, what should we do more of? What should we do Less of those things. Are all things that everyone is there to, they're open to changing and I think that's what makes it, an environment where somebody can really flourish there. That they do prioritize people over processes. They, the organization also. Wants people to embrace this growth mindset. And of course, I love learning. Like I actually have a bunch of books stacked up to hold the microphone up right now, that I was reading. But yeah, so having leaders that want you to grow so much that even if you grow into a different department, they're okay with that. Now, of course, there's processes in place, but it's like they, they want you to do it in a certain way so that. They wanna set you up for success.

Varun Rajan: 14:36

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 14:37

part I do think is here because I don't hear a lot of stories of other organizations like that. So I'm very grateful for the opportunity that I have here. But of course, anywhere you go, you're gonna find pluses and minuses in the experience

Varun Rajan: 14:51

Of course. Yeah. But that's really fascinating to hear. I've been reading this book about how to help people. essentially I've been reading a bunch of books about people finding the right fit at a workplace and what that means and how employers can think about, like helping their employees like fit into the role that's right for them once they have them. It's a couple of different books. so that, that whole aspect of things is super interesting to me right now. I might try to, I might try to reach out again and ask more questions about how things operate there, because it sounds like a very interesting, set of,

Jess Mendoza: 15:21

radical Candor? I,

Varun Rajan: 15:23

I have, yes.

Jess Mendoza: 15:24

that's a

Varun Rajan: 15:24

it was a while ago actually, but yeah, it's a great book.

Jess Mendoza: 15:27

a great one. Yeah, so that one too, like having that whole feedback and accountability of your work, but also understanding that communication piece of if you're struggling, don't suffer in silence. make sure you say something, shout out to somebody, that you feel comfortable with. And I think. Having that transparency in leadership, like they do keep us involved in the conversations when there's certain decisions being made, and they keep us in conversations when it comes to career growth. Hey, how satisfied are you guys right now where you're at? Where could we do better? They have those conversations and I don't, as far as I know, I don't hear that. Other organizations do that a lot according to. comments I've heard from my peers, like they don't do that everywhere. So that is something that, that's super useful, to wanna learn from your team and not necessarily dictate everything that they do. give them some autonomy, trust them that they come to work because they want to do well. Nobody shows up to work saying, I'm going to do all these mistakes today and see what happens. Okay.

Varun Rajan: 16:28

we've been talking about you being in an environment that's really conducive to you being able to learn and grow and flex different muscles. so the question is, what would it look like if companies were actually designed for connection and not just productivity? And what would that mean for the company?

Jess Mendoza: 16:49

Yeah, In a perfect world, if I were in charge of that, I think it would

Varun Rajan: 16:55

Of course.

Jess Mendoza: 16:55

understanding the composition of who's coming to work. Like understanding what do they need to be set up for success what are challenges that they typically face, and how can the company and their collaborators support them in that space. So that kind of goes to speak about. Challenges with neurodiversity. if we all were more cognizant of, maybe we want to be a little bit more objective in the way that we're talking and not necessarily use all these weird phrases like blue skies. Like just say we're starting from ground zero, we're doing up, that can be confusing. and understanding that people, they're there fill a role, but they also have their own dreams and their own goals. And they are, I think they should be allowed to grow in that space too. I don't think that should be seen as like a threat of oh no, my resource is going no, your resource is evolving, and now they can train another person to fill that role.

Varun Rajan: 17:56

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 17:57

so looking at it like that and then the worklife balance too, I think that's really important. Like I read somewhere and don't quote me on this because I don't know the statistics on that, but I did read that there was a study where people were. Asked a survey if they would be willing to pay, willing to get paid less if it meant that they could do a four day work week. And I know in Iceland for sure, people are doing a four day work week and they're having success with it now. Not everyone's gonna find that success, obviously. if you're in the medical field, you can't just be like, sorry

Varun Rajan: 18:31

Of course,

Jess Mendoza: 18:31

to have your heart attacks another day or something like that. you can't do that.

Varun Rajan: 18:37

right.

Jess Mendoza: 18:38

understanding that like people. Are here to live. They're not born to work. We are working so that we can afford to have a nice life and experience. the little joys in life, whether that be with your grandparents, your friends, or if you have kids, your children or your pets, is the purpose of our work. And when you come into work, you're. People will talk about bringing their authentic selves, but I know it's not always the case that everyone can safely feel that way. There are some populations that are facing different experiences than others, and I think bringing awareness to, okay, if that's something that's present in, in the world today, what can this organization do to level the ground? What opportunities can we share that everyone can have access to? What resource can we share that everyone has access to? And do we have these checks and balances in place to make sure that the opportunities are being dispersed fairly? So I think, yeah, and that, that's how I would see it if it was designed for that connection, because your employees wouldn't just be there for the paycheck. They'd be there for the experience of I know these people. This is my community, this is my village, and these are the people I wanna be productive with. This is my team.

Varun Rajan: 19:53

Yeah. My last guest actually was saying that the research shows that someone is more likely to stay at a job if they feel like they have friends at work, right? and that can go into some pretty toxic directions, right? if you're trauma bonded to a bunch of people. I think, folks who have worked at a bunch of. Startups, can attest to that to some degree. but, but yeah, I think it makes sense, right? If you have healthy relationships with your colleagues, that's something that goes a long way. And I also like the, what, it really resonated with me what you said about. Flexing into new and different roles, and having your employer see that as an opportunity for new value rather than losing a resource like you have a resource that's involving into something new that can actually benefit the company and then train and hire somebody else to take care of the responsibilities, that the first person. Once had as, as part of their job description. I think that kind of thinking is a lot more kind of like abundance thinking versus scarcity thinking. Where it's okay, like what's the opportunity if this person moves away from this world that we direly need to keep, that seat filled for whatever reason. That's super helpful. thank you. curious, you've been involved in rolling out understanding of AI across your company and trying to get people to be a little bit more comfortable with it. So I am curious about some things when it comes to AI being used in the workplace. How is AI already reshaping how knowledge workers, people in corporate, how people think, And collaborate. What are you seeing?

Jess Mendoza: 21:28

Yeah. So one, I wanna start with something interesting about prompting that I learned. So I remember having a discussion with a colleague. I respect very much because they're so adept in AI and technology in general. I remember thinking like, Hey, we really need to focus on how can we bring AI literacy to the table and get people to understand how to interact with these tools. And prompting is like the main way that people interact. And they were like, oh, I don't know if that will be a need be. 'cause you could just. Converse with them. Like you converse with the LLMs just like you would a person and it does its thing. And I was like, yeah, but not everyone converses the same way. So if my prompt and your prompt, like we were asked to build something, but we have a totally different scope of how we perceive that think we want and the output. It's gonna look different for everyone. It kind of reminds me of the phrase like, everywhere you go, there you are. So if you make this prompt and you're like, oh, I don't know. I don't like the output. what was your input and what did you know about your input? the way that you prompt is really a reflection of how you articulate your thoughts. And there are different sort of prompting styles that can help you, train of thought or step-by-step or sequential prompts or even asking it to role play, even dictating those specific prompts. it really ties down to how are you gonna communicate that to someone or something else. And so then we started rolling up these workshops of okay, this is how you might wanna consider prompting and here's some shortcuts of how to do it. but yeah.

Varun Rajan: 23:06

what do you think as you're doing some of these prompting workshops and talking to people that you work with about how to approach these tools, what is the skill? and I'm thinking cognitive skill, emotional skill, et cetera. what skill do you think will become more important in an AI powered workplace as these technologies evolve?

Jess Mendoza: 23:28

Yeah, I would say the number one skill is critical thinking, and the top close one would be communication. so with critical thinking, it's a lot that encompasses that. That's like reasoning decision making, being able to understand, you are using your judgments and you have to follow up with, okay, this is the output. What do I know about this? To be able to assess primary and secondary resources and compare it to make sure it's right or it's accurate. That, and then having a little bit of curiosity into the subjects that you're trying to learn more of to helps because let's say I wanted to learn about programming. if I'm asking Chad GPT to do this. Prompt a Python script to create a game. If I know nothing about programming, then I'm not gonna be able to dictate a better prompt to say, I want it to be 3D, or I want it to. When two worms crash together, I'm thinking of like the worm game now or the snake game, bringing back the Nokia snake game. If they crash together, they're gonna blow up. But what kind of software environment do they need? I need a virtual environment. I need this Python library. I need, to have the user interface perform a certain way needs to adhere to. Web and content accessibility guidelines so that the contrast as well. So it's like having that background knowledge will supplement how much you're able to with your prompt. And even if you don't have that background knowledge, I mean there's these two arguments I'm seeing of there's gonna be no experts anymore, or you have to be an expert to use these tools or you don't have to be an expert at all to use these tools. So there's like these schools of thought going on and I feel Yes, to some extent you have to know about what you're working with to understand how to interact and get the right outcome. But I don't wanna go as far as saying, Hey, you guys need to all get a PhD To interact with these tools like that is not the case. you need to know just enough about the subject and know it well to be able to understand and assess what that output is and make sure it's guiding you in that right direction.

Varun Rajan: 25:35

Yeah, so so in terms of the skills, you need communication, obviously. and I hear like curiosity and judgment, right? So it's like you can't, and I'm hearing this a lot about, I. LLM outputs. You can't just take them at face value. You have to have some discernment, some way to actually judge and decide whether it's high quality and whether you can use that output or figure out how you would want to edit it, adjust it, et cetera. But then curiosity was something that you brought up, which is go that extra step of if you're not an expert in what you're trying to generate, you still have to have enough curiosity to be able to have that judgment and discernment, especially if you're not. A domain expert in the thing that you're actually trying to generate, you wanna say okay, is this the right thing? What else do I need? The ability to continue to follow up, because these tools aren't magic. They just don't con, convey, whatever is in your brain. You have to figure out the right way to put it down on paper. so to speak. you have to figure out what you're getting back, like what else do you need in order to make your thing work? and you have to have the drive to be able to search for all of the kind of ancillary knowledge around that to figure out what you're actually building or what you're actually trying to achieve, with the tools that you have.

Jess Mendoza: 26:49

Yeah, and you have to be open to challenging yourself. Like I, in addition to asking it to provide me feedback when I'm writing something or to help me learn a thing, I'll ask it. Where am I struggling? What do I not know enough about yet? And where can I get those resources? Could you provide me with those links? And then I go through and check those links? 'cause sometimes those links are fake. It

Varun Rajan: 27:12

Totally.

Jess Mendoza: 27:12

and either, either they're fake or either they're expired links and it's not always unintentional. Like I don't think it's out of malice at all. I think it's just, it's a tool that was changed on this large set of data that was unlabeled. So it's bound to make some errors. And that's again, where you go in the loop. You are the human in the loop. So I always like to say the you in the loop.

Varun Rajan: 27:33

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. you've obviously made a pretty significant career pivot, and you went through a lot and kept yourself very open and earnest in searching for the new career trajectory that you have today. tell me a little bit about the kinds of folks that you see struggling in the job market today. how does being at work, show up differently for first gen professionals or career switchers, whether it's being at work or, searching for work. Do you have a sense of what they're push and pull factors are? What are they looking for? What are they avoiding? yeah, who do you see struggling today and what are the trends that, that you see with them, and how would you advise them to move forward?

Jess Mendoza: 28:14

Yeah, I see different groups struggling. There's like a group of new graduates that might be struggling. There's a group of career pivoters, and then there's also the groups of people who have a lot of experience but have been unfortunately laid off from their organizations. And so you have those three lumps in the job market pool. And then you also have international workers too, who are, so that's, a fourth lump in this job market pool of people competing for these jobs. it, each pool has their own different struggle. The season workers will have been let go, might be deemed as overqualified now. The new people that just graduated don't have enough experience. Now the pivots are fighting between to get squeezed in, and then the international people are like, Hey, I just, I really wanna stay here. can I get hired somewhere? a lot of things that are in and out of people's control. In psychology, there is this concept called. The internal locus of control and then the external locus of control. Have you heard of that

Varun Rajan: 29:18

Yeah. Yes.

Jess Mendoza: 29:19

1 0 1? Yeah. So like for anyone listening who hasn't, the internal locus of control is focusing on the things that you have influence over directly. So for example, you have a certain amount of hours after work that you have to go to the gym, go do fun stuff, and then. If you'd like to carve out to study things that you want to learn. external things are things you can't control. So let's say on the way to the gym, you get a flat tire, you can't beat yourself up over that. That's something you cannot control. It's gotta let it go. The job market right now, a lot of companies shifting because they're, some companies are trying to automate things, which are reducing the resources that are opportunities for people to get hired. You cannot control that, unfortunately, but what you can control is. What direction can I bring myself into? Where can I see this like concept of things that I'm good at, things I could get paid for, and the demand that is there. And sometimes that will look different for different people that might look like contracting roles at the beginning. Those contracting roles might turn into a full-time job, or those contracting roles might turn into this experience that you have to become an entrepreneur and open your own consultancy. And then see a lot of younger generations doing their content creation and their. Really good at it. Like it's so easy for them.

Varun Rajan: 30:47

Yeah,

Jess Mendoza: 30:48

like, I'm so comfortable for this camera. And I'm like, good for you, because I'm not,

Varun Rajan: 30:53

it's harder than it looks for sure.

Jess Mendoza: 30:55

really is. So those are the groups that I see struggling and like what I would do is just focus on what you do, have control over and keep one foot in front of the other and something, one of my colleagues, Joaquin Malata, founder of the Swarm community. Advise me is do what you can when you can, because there's gonna be times where you can't do anything about it, and you shouldn't feel guilty about resting. Resting is a part of that process. As much as you think oh, I'm not doing anything. Yes, you are. You're allowing your body to heal, regenerate, and be stronger for when you hit the ground again the next day.

Varun Rajan: 31:31

Seeing rest as productive is an incredibly important mindset shift. Yeah, absolutely. I. Jess. Thank you. any other words of wisdom you would like to leave with the audience? or any other, shout outs you'd like to make?

Jess Mendoza: 31:46

Yeah. Thank you. let me get some shout outs here so yeah, I mentioned Joaquin Melara, founder of the Swarm Community, really great community to be a part of. They do a lot of events for people to learn about AI literacy, responsible AI use, and how to pivot from design. Anne Cantera and Mahnaz Hajesmaeili, They have a podcast called, I think it's DESIGNathon, and they're talking about like different pivots into the world of conversation design and voice design. also Yadi Arroyo. She's been, I wanna call her like a fairy godmother because she's very positive. Like I'm going through something at work. I'll be like, Kadi, is this. Is this typical or am I just like in my own head and like she'll just have a small conversation with me and I feel a lot better? Dr. Gyles Morrison, he's in the UK and he does career coaching. He actually coined this term called clinical ux, where he tries, I wouldn't say he tries. He does a lot of work and trying to change the landscape of. The clinical world and making it a more user-friendly place for everyone, and not just in the sense of developing the technology, but also the services around that, which is really important given that there's so many. Variations of care that different populations receive. that's critical in today's world. And Cynthia Leimbach, she's the founder of LA Health now, and I had the pleasure of working with her to get that up and going along with, Nick Thomson, ChinonsoUgwu, Susanne Loeber, and Barend Jungerius. So I know there's probably some names that I'm leaving out because. The list goes on and on. there's a lot of people I have to think in this journey. but yeah.

Varun Rajan: 33:28

We don't get anywhere without the help of other people, totally.

Jess Mendoza: 33:31

You

Varun Rajan: 33:31

Yeah.

Jess Mendoza: 33:32

like it, it does, it's lonely at first when you're like, oh, I don't know what to do. And then you get outta your head and you figure out that everyone didn't know what to do at the beginning. You just gotta start somewhere. And it's okay to start. ground zero, it's okay to not know nothing. That's actually an opportunity to grow right there. Like that's a push and pull moment for you.

Varun Rajan: 33:52

anything else that you wanna leave us with

Jess Mendoza: 33:55

Yeah. I would say the last thing is, think about the human experience and what you can do to advocate to enhance that. Because as we're moving on in this rapid pace of technology, you're gonna see a lot of. Things changing in relation to the interface, how we interact with our interfaces. But something that's gonna stay constant is our ability to remain connected to one another and see each other as we are, as people. Like just lead with compassion and kindness when you can and when you're in a position to help others. Help others. But of course, also balance that. Don't overextend yourself 'cause you can't pour from an empty cup. That is something I've learned the hard way, just make sure like you're. You're not closing the gate or like kicking the ladder behind you. Like when others win, you win too. It comes right back. It always comes back. Like I, I strongly believe in that success is tied to other success and vice versa. Like the community really has a way of lifting you when you're feeling at your lowest. And I just wanna see more of that in the world. so yeah.

Varun Rajan: 34:59

Yeah. I appreciate you ending with and putting out a call for more positivity in the world, Jess. So thank you so much, for being here with me, letting me ask you a bunch of questions and sharing your story with us. super appreciate it. Of course. Absolutely. this was super fun. Um,

Jess Mendoza: 35:19

it was, I didn't expect to learn so much about myself from your observations of the conversation. That

Varun Rajan: 35:25

Oh, that's great. I love to hear that. I love to hear that. And that was part two of my conversation with Jess Mendoza, and I'm sure we could have kept going, uh, for us as long as we needed to for a part three. Um, but I hope you found it as insightful, uh, and grounded as I did. What really stood out to me is how Jess brings the same level of sincerity and intentionality to every part of her work. Not just doing the job that she signed up to do, but really gravitating towards the things that she finds herself really passionate about. it actually reminds me a lot about the book job moves that I had read for one of my solo episodes. there was a lot in that book about finding the things that your employees were passionate about and encouraging them to invest a lot of their creative energy and potential making the things manifest, and that's something that it seems like Jess was really able to do a lot and is still able to do it today. From the community building experiences to the AI training, I. So what comes first here? Is it Jess's tenacity and proactivity where she empowers herself to do those things? Or does she work at a place that is fundamentally supportive and provides the kind of environment where she can thrive, not just doing the job that she signed up to do, but. Do the job that she identifies as needing to be done, uh, and one that she truly has an affinity for. Jess, I think with this conversation reminded me a lot that Real innovation is human first, There's so much about our identities that are wrapped up in, what we do and how we provide for ourselves, and we get so much meaning from it that I think is important to understand that. The outputs of that should also be thinking about the person first. Um, and obviously the inputs, the actual work, what we're doing in order to get those outcomes are. Going to be focused on how we thrive and, and feel welcome in our place of work. her advice, I think for career switchers and job seekers is gold. Focus on what is in your control and give yourself permission to start from scratch and know that the rest is just part of the process. So if this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who's navigating a transition or trying to find their voice at work. And make sure to subscribe. Uh, we've got more conversations coming soon about the human side of change. Um, and, uh, yeah. Thank you so much again for listening.